tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post8358536137992971726..comments2024-03-18T17:01:07.165-07:00Comments on The Provocateur: Tea Parties at the Crossroadsmike volpehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02999118519606254362noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-47997623265507765152009-11-23T08:01:35.998-08:002009-11-23T08:01:35.998-08:00Last I checked, Hoffman was about 3k behind with 5...Last I checked, Hoffman was about 3k behind with 5k left uncounted. I'd say the odds are long. If that changes, let me know.mike volpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02999118519606254362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-30590428780566041452009-11-22T19:26:30.365-08:002009-11-22T19:26:30.365-08:00Mike have you been following the 23rd controversy?...Mike have you been following the 23rd controversy?<br /><br />http://www.redstate.com/mschmitt/2009/11/21/no-one-won-ny-23/<br /><br />this is ONE small story..<br /><br />Suffice it to say if there is indeed fraud, our arguments one way or the other really mean little.<br /><br />We are simply screwed.Jason Gillmanhttp://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-20795876390328177352009-11-12T11:54:45.628-08:002009-11-12T11:54:45.628-08:00I understand that elections are once a year but yo...I understand that elections are once a year but you need to understand that in the only one you lost. If the movement doesn't recognize that you'll have the same thing happen.<br /><br />Republicans swept everywhere but where the tea parties made a stand. That's a problem. I called the election wrong. That's not tragic. The tea parties made the election into a referendum on who is the most conservative and that will never work. Until people understand this you'll purge all moderates and replace them all with Democrats.mike volpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02999118519606254362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-5316393210758506192009-11-12T11:12:57.909-08:002009-11-12T11:12:57.909-08:00And we come full circle..
November 4th only comes...And we come full circle..<br /><br />November 4th only comes once a year. (or rather the first Tuesday in November)<br /><br />How many races have been held? You were as wrong as I was about the results of this last. But to keep denying the reality of ALL things that played in the 23rd to support your thesis is missing the point still.<br /><br />I want Republicans to win as much as the next guy.(Republican guy) Why? Because I want the policies that I think will work to be implemented. Because I want the constitution to be followed.<br /><br />If my Republican wins, and does things contrary to what I want.. what is the point of electing that Rep in the first place? Why and HOW would/could I continue to support them? What would be the point if electing them is to move my agenda forward?<br /><br />So we lose a seat and threaten a majority of the lead eaters for a term.. meh..<br /><br />the NEXT time, perhaps the actions of those lead eaters bring about the realization that they in fact are solely responsible for the predicament we are in.. <br /><br />With the Republicans doing the same as the lead eaters, the line is blurred, and then people say the R's are the same as the D's... And you as a Libertarian, (at least that is what you have said)are most certainly aware THAT is one of the major beefs the Libertarians have had with the "two party" system." <br /><br />My "goal" is to educate so that they DO agree with me.. (or with the Tea Party folks) Either by shaming those who are looking to stray with constitutional FACT, or getting them out of the party if they don't vote like Republicans.<br /><br />To do it your way would be like allowing Jimmy Carter to join the Republican party to speak for it.. Does that seem even remotely proper?Jason Gillmanhttp://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-87397451526165775192009-11-12T10:24:32.440-08:002009-11-12T10:24:32.440-08:00Jason, that's a lot of speechifying but you se...Jason, that's a lot of speechifying but you seem not to recognize reality. <br /><br />What you want to do is purge the Republican party of anyone that disagrees with you. You, yourself, may not have any power, but the tea parties do, and it appears their goals are about the same as yours. They have plenty of power within the Republican party and so far have shown to have no power in a general election. <br /><br />So, your plan is to purge all so called RINO's and replace them with Democrats. That's a strategy for a permanent minority.mike volpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02999118519606254362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-40366323401259282742009-11-12T08:38:12.419-08:002009-11-12T08:38:12.419-08:00LOL I'm not sure the Republican party would ev...LOL I'm not sure the Republican party would ever be in my image Mike.<br /><br />in 1975, Ronald Reagan called for a revitalized Republican Party, "raising a banner of no pale pastels, but bold colors which make it unmistakably clear where we stand on all of the issues troubling the people."<br /><br />The problem as the perception of what is Right or Left consistently moves further into the left those "moderates" who would capitulate rather than educate dull the edges of difference.<br /><br />I want the best for our country as do most who would comment here or elsewhere. My argument is that the progressive policies of the left have no place in the votes of the Republicans. <br /><br />If our economy or society tanks, let it rest squarely on the shoulders of those who craft such garbage as HR3962, or Cap and Trade legislation. But Republicans should not be counted as supporters, for if they are, then the distinctions will cause greater losses later.<br /><br />The U.S. needs an alternative, and a third party is obviously not the way to go, so the infusion of REAL conservative principles back into the party needs to happen, and now IS happening. in the process we lose a couple of folks who ought not be carrying the banner anyhow, as they are frauds.<br /><br />I am a Republican, and I want my team to win, but I also want it to win for a reason.Jason Gillmanhttp://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-75135007792922289522009-11-12T06:47:58.967-08:002009-11-12T06:47:58.967-08:00That's the point, Jason. At least, it's my...That's the point, Jason. At least, it's my point. What if the tea parties succeed and they remove Graham. Then what. It's proven to be effective with the base and not effective with the general population. So, you'll remove Graham and then have the replacement lose to the Dem. What exactly does that accomplish. <br /><br />You aren't getting it. The general population isn't liking the message as much as you seem to think they do. Or better yet, you don't care what the general population thinks. As such, you will remake the Republican party into your image and that party won't win any elections.mike volpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02999118519606254362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-25716110741052994572009-11-12T06:21:32.348-08:002009-11-12T06:21:32.348-08:00Anon 2:16 PM,
Glad you commented. In the very p...Anon 2:16 PM,<br /><br />Glad you commented. In the very post that you boldly point out my name as someone who Lindsey Graham will not be afraid of... You kind of prove my point.<br /><br />You insist an absolute, yet have not the courage to back it up with your own name. You have no "skin in the game" be it a real participation, or just simply putting words in your own mouth by making a statement attached to you permanently.<br /><br />Lindsey Graham will not be afraid of me, but the drumbeat of conservatism is making a difference. I place my name on every measured hit towards that end, and in the end claim partial ownership to all victories or minor defeats, all the while operating from a set of conservative standards or principles.<br /><br />You will own nothing. You don't even have enough faith in your own words to sign them.Jason Gillmanhttp://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-58859187177917438892009-11-11T20:27:06.199-08:002009-11-11T20:27:06.199-08:00"More often than not the most important effec..."More often than not the most important effect of an election is who gets defeated, not who gets elected. When a politician loses for 'doing the wrong thing' the incentives change for all of them."<br />Mackinac Center "Tea Party Activist Toolbox"<br /><br />We're never going to “throw them all out” and replace them with virtuous paragons immune to the same incentives, so changing those incentives is the key. Doing so means sometimes just taking one one out and shooting him (or her) as an example to the rest. Figuratively speaking, of course. <br /><br />DeDe's having a much greater impact on the system out of office than she ever would in office.Jack McHughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11996725074954365568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-25589675027387423262009-11-11T15:22:21.382-08:002009-11-11T15:22:21.382-08:00"This won't be a clear victory, or defeat..."This won't be a clear victory, or defeat, until we see what happens in the next regular election cycle."<br /><br />Well technically Owens was around just long enough to vote for Health Care Reform, so yeah, that's a pretty clear defeat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-39886708155465572352009-11-11T14:16:28.780-08:002009-11-11T14:16:28.780-08:00Speaking of crushing defeats spun as victories, go...Speaking of crushing defeats spun as victories, going after Lindsey Graham is the political equivalent of spitballs at a freight train.<br /><br />You're never going to get to Graham. He thinks you people are wackos. And for the foreseeable future, a majority of both Americans and South Carolinians agree with him. HE IS NOT AFRAID OF YOU, JASON GILLMAN.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-38364900132381011002009-11-11T14:11:45.202-08:002009-11-11T14:11:45.202-08:00"Killing off Scozzafava isn't a win if it...<i>"Killing off Scozzafava isn't a win if it means a Democrat then beats your guy."</i><br /><br />Well it's definitely not a loss.<br /><br /><br />If Scozzafava hadn't been challenged, BEST case scenario, she would have won. And what Republican would have run against her when she's up for reelection?<br /><br />Let's assume another Hoffman would step up - we'd repeat the cycle. The GOP puppet masters would throw their support behind the incumbent. How many times would this cycle repeat, before she was either defeated by a Democrat, or didn't run for reelection? Instead, NY only has to wait out a single year until they can put forth another conservative Republican.<br /><br />This won't be a clear victory, or defeat, until we see what happens in the next regular election cycle. If the puppetmasters offer up another so-called moderate, it's defeat for the Tea Party movement et al. If NY gets an opportunity to vote on a true conservative candidate, it will be a victory - and well worth the effort of this year. <br /><br />It does illustrate, however, that 3rd party doesn't work.FourMartinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16924405918121356635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-92080362457476554762009-11-11T12:46:55.824-08:002009-11-11T12:46:55.824-08:00Yes, instead of Scozzafava it's a Democrat. Wh...Yes, instead of Scozzafava it's a Democrat. What a victory?<br /><br />Again, I showed how the protests grew. I wasn't going to talk about every protest organized by the tea parties. I don't know why you are fixated with that. <br /><br />You also want to have this both ways. If Hoffman was an unknown with no chance of winning, why did you expect the party to choose him? He had the entire conservative movement behind him and lost. <br /><br />This is a loss plain and simple. You can't claim that beating the RINO to have the Democrat win is a win. That's absurd and silly.mike volpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02999118519606254362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-44142563705173335022009-11-11T12:24:11.801-08:002009-11-11T12:24:11.801-08:00OK so you only left out two of the most recent and...OK so you only left out two of the most recent and influential ones.. my bad.<br /><br />As for assuming the scozzafava situation would be played out every time, you miss the point.<br /><br />PRIMARIES. <br /><br />Had there been a primary, Hoffman (or perhaps another) would have been able to oust scozzafava easily. That does two things.. It allows the think nots who pull the lever based on the party designation alone to actually vote for someone who is running.<br /><br />The 23rd WAS a win.<br /><br />If Dede scozzafava would have won as a Republican, the brand would have endured even more damage than it already has. The fact that so many "republican" representatives have a tendency to vote for things that were once a part of the communist plank suggests a little perspective correction is needed.<br /><br />I would think a Libertarian of all folks would see that.Jason Gillmanhttp://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-65574845828169545502009-11-11T11:08:31.333-08:002009-11-11T11:08:31.333-08:00I didn't mention every protest because the aud...I didn't mention every protest because the audience gets the idea. The tea parties went from getting a few thousand to a million. That's just overkill. <br /><br />Killing off Scozzafava isn't a win if it means a Democrat then beats your guy. That you continue to think it was is more troubling than the loss itself. If tea parties get their way in ever primary only to lose every general election that's a resounding loss.mike volpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02999118519606254362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098264341625381422.post-19976015510842597782009-11-11T10:54:26.529-08:002009-11-11T10:54:26.529-08:00November 4th only comes once a year.
30 days turn...November 4th only comes once a year.<br /><br />30 days turned Hoffman into a near win. <br />Lessons learned? YES. <br />Total loss? NO<br /><br />As I said before, it was a RESOUNDING NO to scozzafava that was the win, whether Hoffman won or not. Given the few percent who vote party no matter what.. not surprising. (Though I had better hopes..)<br /><br />The big win? Her own GOP said "step down.. you endorsed the Democrat."<br /><br />Today, the SC GOP told Lindsey Graham to shut up. Do you think it would have happened without the pressure of tea parties and the underlying organizations that are QUITE active right now? Now a chance in hell. Further, we would be a hell of a lot further towards this administration's goals of total domination were it not for those of us who have traveled at a moments notice to protest. <br /><br />You didn't even mention the over 1 million people who went to Washington on 9-12, or the even more recent 40-60K. I was in Washington.. those weren't made up numbers.<br /><br />We shall see next November Tuesday first how accurate your assessment is, but frankly given the missing optimism in this post, your glass is too half empty.Jason Gillmanhttp://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.com